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5/14/08, comments on this page concerning disinformation

9-11 Disinformation has dynamics of human behavior on an individual and group level that requires consideration in order to apprehend its manifestation and control over our effort to obtain the truth and due process in the nearly 3,000 capitol crimes that happened on that fateful Tuesday morning.

There are 2 kinds of disinformation. Disinformation by design conducted directly by agents acting for the perpetrating infiltration of government and then, disinformation by default indirectly. Default disinformation is a tactic of disinformation by design and deceives the public with misinformation, whereupon they dismiss facts and refuse to use evidence due to social fears associated with what cannot be shown to consist of factual basis. This has been instituted in the past by an intensive campaign of ridicule within group psychology conducted directly by agents in the initial social setting where truth seekers are all strangers to one another. That puts the social structure of fear in place and establishes it as controlling the movements responses where they reject physical evidence and assume the historically accepted evidence is correct despite the fact that no physical evidence exists for it or that the sources of it are logically suspect. Because default disinformation works with social fears established in the past, no cognitive processes are engaged between group members and the easiest thing is to simply go along with the trend of the group.

Thereby the true disinformation agents manipulate the group into doing their dirty work for them.

The original text of this page is left as it was and comments added are in red.

Alex Jones

Not sure what to think of AJ. Some things he puts out I appreciate. Sensation and fearful aspects with no real factual understanding seems a modus operandi. Critical aspects of the Twin Towers structure he will not respond to, I've tried numerous times. He seems to be in the buisness of alternative news and is dependent upon social structures naturally so working with Dylan Avery in the beginning of "Loose Change" was in opposition to my work which is quite technical. Experiences documented below on the Loose Change forum show that people of that group require authorities to define the meaning of evidence to them and so believe FEMA in the absense of any other authority they trust to resolve the issue of the concvrete core by using independently verified evidence found here.


Loose Change was first a video presenting different theories about 9-11. Now, in a role of leadership, it has become a forum. What follows is a part of my experience as a member posting there prior to being banned.

NOTE: At the time of the initial writing of this page there was no knowledge of the identity of the person actually doing the banning since then it has been learned that the individual was not Dylan Avery, the producer of Loose Change and the founder of the forum. Below is a link to a belated public apology from the moderator at Loose Change working from pilotsfor911truth.org who conducted the banning. Accordingly I apologize to Dylan Avery for the blanket application of "disinformation" to Loose Change forums because of one moderators action. Until true accountability is created within 9-11 discussion, unfortunately, such actions are needed to create a reason for such accounatbility.

(NOTE: Since the above, I was banned 3 times for asking the believers of the official story of the structure for justification of that belief at Loose Change. I would ask if they believed in the steel core columns, they would answer "yes", I would say, "So you believe in the official story of the structure FEMA presents?" They would say "No", I would say, "Then you believe in the official story of the structure", then they would ban me.)

Loose Change Forum Rules:

1. Bull$#!t will not be tolerated. Plain and simple. You respect us, we will respect you.

2. Open-minded, intelligent discussion is allowed.

3. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. No questions. You can attack a persons theory. You cannot attack the person presenting the theory.

4. Please keep controversial theories i.e. H-Bombs and CGI generated "Live" footage in the Alternative section.

5. Skeptics, who follow the official story are asked to keep their discussions in the Debate section, we do not accept the official conspiracy theory as evidence in other areas of the forum. Those looking for access to post in Debate forum, please review the Debate forum stickies for access.

6. People who do nothing but cause trouble will be banned on sight. No questions asked.

7. Most importantly, we hope you find the Loose Change forums interesting and educational, enjoy.


Bull$#!t was tolerated and questions were avoided over and over, never answered and I complained and in the beginning a mod or 2 took action

These questions in particular which relate to the supposed steel core columns non appearance in demo images or their supposed demolition, were never answered.

How many explosions would be required to cut 47 1300 foot columns and cut them into 40 foot pieces?

How much high explosive is required to cut thick tempered steel without linear shape charges?

Does the explosive have to be in direct contact with the steel?

Do linear shape charges have to be in direct contact to perform?

What was acesss/clearance like around the supposed steel core columns in the core?

What do unconstrained high explosive detonations sound like and does that compare to what as heard on 9-11? What does that look like when cutting steel?


If the steel core columns existed and they were taken out with explosives, why is that thing still standing which would have to be AROUND the steel core columns while no steel core columns are seen protruding from the core?

Debate forum rules below were violated by my opposition and I complained. However I did not follow the procedure at the bottom. But, what is important here, the truth or the forum rules? I have ADHD and, ....... the only web site on the planet that explains near free fall and total pulverization in a feasible fashion.

1- Challenge. You may challenge any member to a debate via the LC Lounge or Debate forum ONLY. If the Debate is agreed. One member will make a thread here titled as such with description of debate in topic description (ie. LoonyBin vs. johndoeX, WTC 7). If anyone else posts besides the Topic starters. Those posts will be deleted. If a member disagrees to a debate challenge, it is NOT a forfeit. Time constraints can be tough for anyone.

2- Topical Debate. Start any debate topic you like that is 9/11 related only. Events leading up to, events after (Iraq War.. etc) are included. No ganging up (see below).

3- Official Govt Reports may be used for an argument.

4- No personal attacks. No exceptions. Profanity is ok within reason. Please dont direct it at your opponent. (any name calling and your debate member status is revoked.)

5- No avoiding questions unless frivolous... ("I dont know" is an answer)

6- Strawman arguments are allowed within reason. For both sides (This is a debate forum after-all)

7- Try to keep sides even. No ganging up. If its is 3 members on 1, please someone drop out and watch. This will be the hardest to do, but try to keep it fair.

8- Keep debate ON TOPIC (meaning 9/11. Any moon landings, Elvis remarks.. will be deleted)

9- For now, you may post openly. If it spirals out of control, this rule may be revoked and turn into a moderator approval system for posts.

10. Edits will have a 5 minute time limit for typos.. etc. Think before you hit the reply key.

11- Any amendments to the rules, or anything you would like to add, please add your suggestion to Rule Amend Thread.

If anyone feels any of the above rules are broken during debate. Call a violation of the specific rule by number and post it in the thread. Stop posting for both sides. PM an Adman for review.


What follows is a moderators analysis of links which I post on my Concrete Core page. I apply notes to each link explaining that there are confusing messages but that what is consistent is the specific language referred to by the authors relating to the concrete core. There is a subtle perspective which is encouraged because the comparable consistency widely varies when steel core assertions are made.


Posted: Oct 1 2006, 02:45 AM

Yet another link.............


"The building‘s design was standard in the 1960s when construction began. At the heart of the structure was a steel and concrete core, housing lift shafts and stairwells. Steel beams radiate outwards and connect with steel uprights, forming the buildings outer wall. All the steel was covered in concrete to guarantee firefighters a minimum period of one or two hours in which they could operate – although aviation fuel would have driven the fire to higher-than-normal temperatures. The floors were also concrete. Newer skyscrapers are constructed using cheaper methods. This building was magnificent, say experts, in the face of utterly unpredictable disaster.

Posted: Oct 1 2006, 03:07 AM

And yet another link.............


"Also unique to the engineering design were its core and elevator system. The twin towers were the first super tall buildings designed without any masonry. Worried that the intense air pressure created by the buildings’ high speed elevators might buckle conventional shafts, engineers designed a solution using a drywall system fixed to the reinforced steel core. For the elevators, to serve 110 stories with a traditional configuration would have required half the area of the lower stories be used for shaft ways. Otis Elevators developed an express and local system, whereby passengers would change at "sky lobbies" on the 44th and 78th floors, halving the number of shaft ways."

"The twin towers, framed in structural steel, had exterior moment frames with 14-in. steel box columns spaced 39 in. on center. The configuration created a complete tube around the building. The central steel core carried gravity loads only. The exterior tube provided all the lateral resistance. Horizontal steel trusses spanned 60 ft from the exterior wall to the core. Concrete on metal deck completed the floor diaphragm."

This link also has a diagram showing the core beams.

Below is the same moderators notice of the ban.

NOTE: It has been learned that painter is a completely separate identity from Dylan Avery and painter has apologized for the banning which was a manifestation of prejudice and discrimination caused by default. That apology was carried out after leaving Loose Change forum and made via at the pilotsfor911truth.org "Lobby" forum.


Posted: Oct 1 2006, 03:16 AM
Group: Admin

Thank you IVXX for your contributions to this thread.

Christophera, I and other Administrators have become weary of you using our forum to advance a position that appears to have little basis in verifiable fact. You have persisted in this now for just over a month and we have been overly tollerant. Your persistence in this borders on spamming.

As of now I am removing your posting privileges indefinitely, moving your threads to the "alt theories" section where they will be locked, pending further Administrative review. We strongly encourage you to find another forum to promulgate your largely unsubstantiated hypothesis.

In fact, the concrete core is the only core verifiable with the indisputable fact of raw evidence of images of the demolition.


The Loose Change Exchange Followed Me To Let's Roll Where Similar Problems Are Noted With Loose Change,

NOTE: JackX was at loose change as well and the ban there supported his position. Also, observe the tenor and emotional focus but the total avoidance of the disinformation issue. I was banned from Lets Roll for calling "disinfo" repeatedly on a group that formed attempting to deny the ezistence of the concrete. core. Phil Jayhan is capable of using reason and controlling himself whereas many others are not. I say this because my posting privileges have been restored and Phil has since the post below, broken free of the stigmatic view of the concrete core because he reasonably sees that it completely enables what is seen in many if not all ways..

The below was posted on LET's ROLL regarding Loose Change

JackX wrote:
Christophera, I and other Administrators have become weary of you using our forum to advance a position that appears to have little basis in verifiable fact. You have persisted in this now for just over a month and we have been overly tollerant. Your persistence in this borders on spamming.

As of now I am removing your posting privileges indefinitely, moving your threads to the "alt theories" section where they will be locked, pending further Administrative review. We strongly encourage you to find another forum to promulgate your largely unsubstantiated hypothesis

Be Quiet


I was banned from Loose Change forums as well. For no real good reason, and with no warnings. And you guys did the same thing to Paul Joseph Watson as well.

Yet Killtown was unbanned and allowed back, so we can all see the bias of Loose Change forum Admins. Anti LetsRoll, Anti Phil, pro Killtown and no plane bullshit.

I even held out an olive branch to those forums asking that we combine our forces and work together. The post was in your special secret forums, the grove. Not a single Admin or Mod even answered that post, and the responce to my olive branch was being banned.

I no longer desire to work together with that forum. Thats forums administration is a total joke.

phil Smile

It is inconcievable that we as a forum helped Dylan so much with his movie and that I even helped finance the first one. And this is my reward?

You quote above telling Chris that his theory has little to no evidence means nothing. As Killtown offers NO EVIDENCE, not a single fricking shred, and him and his no plane bullshit is allowed and welcome. And Killtown even had a platform to trash me, and this forum without ceasing for about 4 months! And he couldn't have done this without blessing, as he gets a link on Dylans website and mine is pulled? Tell Dylan thanks for nothing. You guys are the home of the No Plane Bullshit! Remember that next time you chide someone for having a theory which has apparently no evidence.

Killtown doesn't have a shred of evidence, and attacks anyone who dare disagree with him. Yet Killtown is welcome and blessed at the Loose Change forums, the home of the No Plane people! Wink


A return to the Loose Change forum in 2007 met with quite irrational and inconsistent behaviors. Wherepon I pointed it out, and I was banned, several times and did not return. I was banned for stating that posters there "believed and supported the official story" of the structure, which is steel core columns because they opposed the independently verified evidence of the concrete core while having none to support the steel core columns.

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The Twin Towers Design & Construction
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Feedback to; Christopher@algoxy.com